Update:
Bill Hybels did not criticize Mark Driscoll or his video.
The allegedly banned videos were available and distributed.
Further discussion:
The Internet Monk has an interesting post with the unfortunate title, Daily Sex With Pastor Mark. Let me assure you that it is not actually about daily sex with Pastor Mark.
Andrew Jones has posted an attempt to clarify some of the rumors resulting from the blogstorm sparked by Mark's original post on the Resurgence blog. I am curious whether the 100's of people who took Mark's conclusions as gospel will now man up and retract their accusations and claims.
Helen has posted both Mark's video and a video by Jen about gender attitudes that just happened to come onto the scene during (but not in response to) the controversy over Mark's video.
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6 comments:
"Just to set the record straight" Bill Hybels did criticize the Mark Driscoll guy, because contextually his comment "just to set the record straight" clearly implied Mark's record was crooked or unstraight. This was not an inadvertent and naive comment, and it was his right to disagree with Driscoll, but to pretend that his implication flies under the radar of critcism betrays some kind of defensive agenda. Let's be fair.
Dave,
Because I wasn't there, in order to be fair, I posted the least flattering quote of Hybel's comment that I could find. The exact quote won't be available until someone posts a transcript from the conference videos. Most of the quotes I have read are more innocuous sounding than the one I quoted.
For example, this from Ben Arment:
"I just want to remind you that there are women in ministry too. And many of them are pretty valuable in church building."
I believe the remark was an intentional gesture to acknowledge the women in the room, nothing more. It seems the people in attendance saw it that way also. Read Ben's blog for a first-hand account.
I have no reason to defend Bill Hybels, and I have chosen to not get sidetracked posting my opinions about the contents of Mark's video. There are plenty of other blogs, including the ones that I linked, discussing the content of the video.
My concern has been the gossip resulting from the inaccuracies in Mark's blog post.
Loved your comment on Lily's blog regarding this. Can I just say "ditto" to everything she said :)
Thanks for posting the Internet Monk link. I rather liked his take on things. It seems Mark (at the start of his video...I have not watched it entirely yet) is talking like the fight is more about fighting against weird people and circumstances than against our real enemy, the powers and principalities that keep people in the darkness they are in. I guess the "lady with the tambourine" showing up at worship in our church would not be told to "park it". The guy with the "end times chart" would certainly not be allowed to get up and teach it in the midst of a worship service and he likely would not be allowed to teach it (depending upon his views....from the way Mark intoned the words I would guess the guy's views would likely not be the same as what our staff believes). I am sure there are plenty of difficulties with people in church planting but I would guess by far the major obstacle would be breaking through the cloud of darkness holding unbelievers captive. Mark's video did seem to leave out any women involved in church planting.
inheritor,
Those are some of the things that caught my attention also. The fact that Mark speaks so degradingly about people makes me wonder how he can then attempt to love them. Loving others begins with having a sincere care for them. I would think that seeing the brokenness in their lives would spark compassion rather than derision.
I agree with what you said, the focus on the battle and war should be towards the enemy.
I laugh when I get a picture of Mark telling the lady with the tambourine to "park it". I can just see Miriam dancing with her tambourine and praising God and Moses turning to her and saying, "Park it, already, Miriam!" ;-)
I wonder how Michal and David fit in here? Michal didn't like how David danced around the ark in the almost buff. I wonder if what Michal did to David was an equivalent to saying "park it" to a person who is expressing worship to God with a tambourine.
Now, the whole tambourine thing is NOT my style but I would think as church planters you would want to have a bit more understanding concerning where people are coming from. There may be a more dignifying way to teach that woman with the tambourine proper etiquette as it pertains to THAT particular church without compromising one's manhood and machismo. :-)
Saying "park it" to a woman isn't exactly "gentlemanly". It may be the kind of "scrapper" mentality but I think one can be a "scrapper" without the sharp edges. I am speaking from experience.
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