Saturday, April 28, 2007

Just the Facts, No Snark

Since I apparently have too much time on my hands today to stay out of trouble, I will update you on the latest controversy surrounding Mark Driscoll and his video at the National Church Planting Conference.

The video can be seen in it's entirety at Mark's blog. It speaks for itself.

The main source of controversy from both sides seems to be the comment made by Bill Hybels after the video. I am not going to argue whether Bill Hybels should have said what he did or not.

For the record, this is what Bill Hybels said:

"There are women in this world, and many of them are used by God in church building, and they have spiritual gifts useful in church planting too, just to set the record straight."

From Mark's blog:
"Apparently the video was shown at the event, was well received by the attendees, and then criticized by Bill Hybels from the stage because it did not speak of women church planters."

There is a difference between acknowledging the women in the room and criticizing Mark. I do not see in Bill's comment that he criticized Mark. Bill's alleged criticism of Mark is the story that is being repeated by Mark's defenders.

For the record, Mark's video has not been banned.

From Mark's blog:
"I thought we should at least post the banned video online."

Choosing not to distribute the video is not the same as banning it as Mark claims. I do not know why Mark would choose to use incendiary language in describing this. This is the tone now being repeated by others in inflammatory posts about the incident.

For the record, we know that Mark loves the ladies.

"Sixty percent of all Christians today are female. I'm glad that the ladies love Jesus." - Mark Driscoll, from the video

I don't know why Mark is always so misunderstood.


Corrie said...


Ladies have always loved Jesus. :-) Or, would that be that Jesus loves the ladies. Since His love precedes our love. Especially for reformed folks like me and Mark Driscoll, it is Jesus who draws those to Himself. You all can draw your own implications from the doctrine of election. ;-)

In fact, the Ladies surrounded Jesus and followed Him and traveled with Him and supported His ministry from their own financial means. All ladies- married, single, divorced, widowed, etc.....And, some of the best lessons on grace, love, devotion, and worship concern the ladies' interaction with Jesus.

I don't know why he is so misunderstood, either.

sonja said...

Ahhhh ... Grace, as you know, I alway love it when a little Light gets shed on a subject ;-)

Thanks for giving us the facts and letting us provide our own snark (not that I did, of course ;-) ).

Corrie said...

Okay, I have had a chance to listen to the video. Interesting. Nicely done with the imagery and scenery. Very hip and "edgy".

Could it be that they chose not to distribute it for some other reason like content?

In one part, he was talking about all the 20 something year old men who are the ones who are least likely to attend church and he tells them that church planters must concentrate on these young men. He tells his audience that these guys have made a wreck of their lives. They are "banging their girlfriends", "blowing their money", staying up all night playing games on the internet, getting free porn on the internet and figuring out how to get "a big sub-woofer into their retarded car". He tells his audience that these are the guys that needed to be reached and gathered and get a swift boot in the rear. They need to be told that "Jesus Christ is not a gay hippie in a dress" and that they are dealing with the King of Kings and the Lord of Lords.

Then when you get the men, he tells you that you must know what to do with them: "They want to know how to get married, how to have sex with their wives at LEAST (emphasis his) once a day, how to make money, how to buy a home, how to pay their bills, how to father their sons, how to love and instruct their daughters", etc.

"The mission is to get the men because if you get the men you win the war."

People might have been offended by the term "banging" as a euphemism for sex and by the term "retarded" when talking about cars.

I don't know many church planters that talk like that. As a parent, I wouldn't want a church planter undermining how I bring up my own children and teaching my impressionable children such terms during sermons.

I have some very good friends with mentally retarded children and I know that they are very sensitive (with good reason, I don't fault them) when this word is used in this fashion.

I don't know the whole controversy but I am not surprised that some people may have a problem with such language.

I don't disagree with his message, for the most part, but there might be some words he could have changed with still getting the same point across.

Lily said...

Whatever. [Lily rolls her eyes]. I hear so many male leaders saying how effective of an evangelist and how great of a leader he is, how they don't want to criticize his entire ministry, just that they disagree with some of his delivery. That just fries me. At least us ladies are willing to call it like we see it.

You know the attention this guy gets by being inflammatory is priceless. Maybe we should just ignore him like a spoiled 2 year old.

Sorry. Snark.

brad brisco said...

Grace, thanks for your post! Well done.

grace said...

I agree that the content and his manner of speaking is probably more offensive than his position on women in ministry. I believe that anyone who is familiar with Mark already know his position on that issue.

The thing that scares me is how many young pastors look to Mark as an example.

Mark seems to get a pass from most people for being rude and insensitive. I don't get it.

Thank you. The reason I decided to post is because almost every other blog posting about this is simply passing along the misinformation from Mark's blog post.

Church Planter said...


The conference continues to stay out of the feeding frenzy on this to avoid further unwarranted divisiveness. We've continued to monitor many blogs over the past few days since the conference and it is a frightening thing to see how sensational and inflammatory misinformation turns to gossip with virtually no concern for seeking the true facts. Gives some insight into how quickly a crowd can call for the crucifixion of the innocent. As the true facts continue to trickle out, the sad thing is that those so quick to run with and propogate rumor will fade to silence with no apologies. From the beginning you were one of the few (along with Ben Arment) that had the insight to see the situation for what it really was. More people should be asking the question why and how this became an issue that read like the headlines on a national enquirer at the checkout lines. Great job in simply calling for an accounting of the facts.

paul said...

the words storm and teacup spring to mind :)

grace said...

church planter,
Thank you for the confirmation. Not having been in attendance myself, I didn't want to be guilty of passing along hearsay. I'm glad that the true facts are finally trickling out. I think it was a very wise choice by the conference organizers to stay out of the feeding frenzy. Like most blog storms, it will lose it's energy in a few days.

Would that be a tempest?
Sounds rather British.